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    New Skin Objections

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    Koda

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    New Skin Objections

    Post  Koda on Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:01 pm

    Hi; new skin.

    1. Really? Using pictures from your own songs as the forum standard images. I notice that that's one of your favorite things to do; plugging your own work everywhere. The first VCB Talk Time episode is almost 100% your music, the intro is all yours, my song wasn't even in it (and if it was, it was inaudible).

    2. Can we get a different slogan? "Where there is music all around" seems kind of generic and uninspired.
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    Mooncrafter

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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Mooncrafter on Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:33 pm

    I agree!

    Maybe the slogan could be "Gotta Produce! VOCALOID" in Pokemon font or something
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Rin Grim on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:00 am

    How about maby, "Where all tunes colide at once." or "were Vocaloid and UTAU meet"
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    Koda

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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Koda on Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:49 am

    Or something catchy like,

    "Come for the forum, stay for the family."

    or Kentai's inspired "Creativity is our middle name!"

    Either way, we should open a poll when we have more suggestions.
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Kentai-P on Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:23 am

    Uhhh, the last one! Very Happy

    personally I don't know what you mean, I didn't draw that pic of miku^^
    I cut it out and put some nice cloud effects on the left and the text.

    Someone has to make the graphics for the board, and there are no longer graphics from my own songs up here.

    I put them in in the first place, because I had to whip something up fast and didn't want to just take pictures and infringe on any number of copyrights.

    And as for VCB Talktime:
    It is true that I used a lot of my own music as BGM, however I DID put your song in.
    Also I just didn't deemed it right to use just any popular japanese vocaloid songs as BGM for a radio show on western producers.

    I decided from the start that as a fundamental conscept, I would only play the music from western producers.


    Now, I had few days to complete the shows video and as a principle I'd had to ask anyone whomes song I would use as BGM.
    As I was in a hurry, I just plunged some of my songs in and a song by the interviewee of the time.


    I do not appreciate this kind of objection very much, seeing how I'm trying my best to implement everyone, it just takes a little time to all work out.
    I have worked hours and hours without end on the show and sacrificed a lot of time, sweat and tears to bring it on. And now this makes it sound as I just wanted cheap self promotion, that really hurts.

    Also with the board.
    the first design, which used the same pictures as in the cover art of atomic winter was something I whipped up really fast, because I wanted the board not to look like total crap, but already start recruiting people, so we could start this family.
    The Board software is a tad bit chaotic, when it comes to the templates and styles and I stil have a few problems managing them to their full extend.
    Non the less I sat down yesterday and worked over 2 hours to get a new, more professional looking design up.

    I did that, while my family went on a city tour in Bodrum, which I would have loved to attend.
    However I deem my work here at the VCB more important than my free time.

    sy,
    Kentai


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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Mooncrafter on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:09 pm

    Thank you for the hardwork and sacrifice then Kentai-P!

    A for graphics, I'd love to whip something up in my spare time~
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    Rin Grim

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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Rin Grim on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:59 pm

    I've always apreciated your work here, atchully I never thought your were being narsistic, I mean someone who spends this much work on other people, can not be narsistic. SO what you put your blogs link in the links, your deserve some credit for what you've done here.
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Kentai-P on Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:27 pm

    yeah, that was kind of my main justification, but it didn't feel right to bring it up myself.

    I created a lot of traffic to this page, but I want for the future, to create a system, that people can get VDs by linking to our page and getting us traffic.
    That would defineatly animate everyone to advertise and boost the capacity of the VD commission market.

    sy,
    Kentai


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    Koda

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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Koda on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:40 pm

    Kentai wrote:And now this makes it sound as I just wanted cheap self promotion, that really hurts.
    Whether you were shamelessly promoting your work or not, I can only make judgements based on how it comes across, as should be obvious.

    There are many other Western VOCALOID producers out there, I know that for sure, and their music is free to display wherever so long as you're not gaining revenue from it.

    Regarding graphics, I'm mainly referring to the Luka pics for board status, which come directly from the art for one of your latest songs if I'm not mistaken. I suppose it's not a big deal, but for me, it was the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back regarding your apparent self-promotion.

    Kentai wrote:I did that, while my family went on a city tour in Bodrum, which I would have loved to attend.
    However I deem my work here at the VCB more important than my free time.
    I do appreciate the effort you put into the VCB very much, but you're not the only person who helps out. While it may seem fitting to give yourself the small reward of a link to your blog, it may seem to others as unfair or self-promoting.

    On that note, I appreciate the new system of permalinking.


    Last edited by Koda on Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:40 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  ladyviolathornhaven on Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:07 pm

    Koda wrote:Regarding graphics, I'm mainly referring to the Luka pics for board status, which come directly from the art for one of your latest songs if I'm not mistaken.

    Although, yes, Kentai did use the shot for one of his songs, the original source of that picture is from a quick shot in "Just Be Friends".

    (Off-Topic: Which makes me slightly upset right now because of the Yunomi-tracing storm that brewed up. I like her art too. ;_; )
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    Koda

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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Koda on Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:12 pm

    Well that clears one thing up. I guess I never noticed because I'm not a fan of the song.
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Kentai-P on Tue Aug 03, 2010 3:47 am

    Hell as if I could draw and color that good ^^
    what kind of twisted opinion do you have about my skills as a drawing artist? xD

    Well with that said and the new permalink system, which I also think is a lot fairer to the community, I hope we can put this whole matter behind us.

    Again: that I put up my self drawn stuff on the forum version 0.5, is purely because I needed to whip something up fast and I refuse to just take a pic from anyone and put it up.

    sy,
    Kentai


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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Aerendyll on Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:08 am

    On one side I like the permalink system, but on the other hand I think it's way too obnoxious since it's on top of the site.

    Now it works fine, but what about later on? What about when we get over 20 people putting their links up? Will it still be on top of the site? I know that with this kind of layout it wouldn't be that much of a bother, but personally I prefer the old way the forum was set up. (Just... DON'T make one big link list on top of the layout.)

    I'm also not really happy with the way the boards are divided... A lot of names are unclear with their meaning and imply things that aren't true. An example being the UTAU corner... "What? Are we supposed to post EVERYTHING UTAU related there?" That's what I thought at first. Turns out it's just for voicebanks and their associated profiles.

    Below I've put up how I would do it, but I put it into a spoiler because it's quite lengthy:

    Spoiler:
    --VOCALOID Creativity Network --

    One board with one topic that sorts things in the following categories:
    - Official sites
    - Wikia's
    - Blogs
    - DeviantArt pages
    - YouTube channels
    - Other (optional)

    Not necessarily in this order, but it's to not make the top boards so obnoxious. I'm sorry, but I really feel that those links just get in the way when browsing the forums, whether it's good for promotion or not.



    -- Site related Area --
    (Why was this called VOCALOID & UTAU general if it has nothing to do with it aside from one subboard?)

    > News and Announcements
    > Introduce Yourself
    > Forum Feedback



    -- VOCALOID & UTAU --
    > VOCALOID and UTAU News (post new VIP UTAUs here, new forums/sites of interest, new VOCALOID releases (no random UTAU releases please, there are several being released daily by now!), new UTAU software releases (the program used updates frequently, so you might want one thread for this), VOCALOID/UTAU events, etc.)
    > General Talk and Discussion
    > UTAU voicebank boards
    > Voicebank reviews and critique
    > Help and assistance (this shouldn't a "make me this" board, more like asking how to do things)
    > Tutorials
    > Original songs
    > VOCALOID
    > Songs by non-members
    > Solo songs
    > Duets
    > Groups & Chorusses
    > UTAU
    > Songs by non-members
    > Solo songs
    > Duets
    > Groups & Chorusses
    > VOCALOID & UTAU mixed
    > Songs by non-members
    > Solo songs
    > Duets
    > Groups & Chorusses
    > Song covers
    > Song covers by non-members
    > Fandubs

    Just... seriously. We don't need original song boards for every VOCALOID out there. Not only is this a waste of space (we don't have enough members to fill out those boards beyond 1-3 topics and more of those in the boards of the more popular VOCALOIDs), it's also very discriminating to English VOCALOIDs, since none of them get their own boards, and UTAUs, since those just can't get their own boards because there are so many in existence. Just make "Solo", "Duet" and "Group" boards for both VOCALOID and UTAU and a "mixed" board where these two different voice types sing together or something if you want to differentiate songs so badly.

    I suggest not making many subboards in "Song Covers" since those are done a lot already and our forum's focus is original material. (If I'm not mistaken.)

    NOTE: Songs can have backup vocals done by other UTAUs or VOCALOIDs, which I would personally not count as e.g. the second person of a duo, or a third person to make a duet into a group/chorus.



    -- General Music & Creativity Boards --

    > Creativity Discussion
    > Artist corner
    > Artwork
    > Music (no VOCALOID and UTAU works, this is for other stuff)
    > Misc. creativity (cosplay, photography, sculpting, you name it!)
    > Requesting board (for if you're low on VocaDimes and need quick help, includes VOCALOID and UTAU vocal tracks, art, music, etc.)

    Some people don't care about VocaDimes, so I figured a requesting board would be nice.



    -- VocaDime Market --

    > Buy a Network Link
    > Commissions board
    > Song Art
    > PV art
    > Background Music
    > Lyrics
    > Vocal tracks (includes UTAU and VOCALOID, but also human, talking software, etc.)



    -- Recycling Center --

    > Off-topic
    > Media Discussions (not just manga and anime please, some of use are gamers, into TV series, western comic lovers, etc.)
    > Forum Games

    I personally do not like spam boards a lot because they often seem dumb and provoke people to act like idiots. If your post can't be posted in the off-topic or media area or in the other board sections it's not even a topic I'd want to read anyway.

    Don't get me wrong - the boards aren't all that bad, but it does need improvement. I'm not out to get anyone with this, it's just my opinion.

    That being said, I agree with Rin Grimm: I'm thankful for Kentai's work in here. He does deserve some credit for that. (Though I'm still iffy about the huge links block that's on the top of the page, but that's not related to Kentai personally.)
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Kentai-P on Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:03 am

    I took some of your suggestions into account, however I can not make to many forums, as that will jepordize the structure and user-friendliness.

    as for the links: I will cope with those, once there are actually some more.

    until then: The layout of the board is now nice and clean and all parts can be accessed without scrolling down.

    sy,
    Kentai


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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Aerendyll on Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:37 am

    Kentai-P wrote:I took some of your suggestions into account, however I can not make to many forums, as that will jepordize the structure and user-friendliness.

    as for the links: I will cope with those, once there are actually some more.

    until then: The layout of the board is now nice and clean and all parts can be accessed without scrolling down.

    sy,
    Kentai



    That's just the thing - for people like me that is way too cramped together. I can hardly focus on the text since it's all on one big heap. I prefer the old way things were, minus the big link bundle on the top since that's more convenient for me.

    My problem with the links is that they seem to be more prominent than this forum itself you make them all appear like board links and THAT is what bothers me. Putting other sites over this one? That doesn't make sense to me.
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Kentai-P on Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:56 am

    so I hope this fixes the Link problems and the heaping.

    I won't unfold the board any more, as Koda pointed out correctly, that it gets way to big.

    If the Forum links under the main cathegories are to small for you, click on the main cathegory and view the forums in the right format.

    sy,
    Kentai

    EDIT: Ok, wait, it still needs fixing ^^°

    EDIT2: fixed.


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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Aerendyll on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:21 am

    Kentai-P wrote:so I hope this fixes the Link problems and the heaping.

    I won't unfold the board any more, as Koda pointed out correctly, that it gets way to big.

    If the Forum links under the main cathegories are to small for you, click on the main cathegory and view the forums in the right format.

    sy,
    Kentai

    EDIT: Ok, wait, it still needs fixing ^^°

    EDIT2: fixed.

    This is significantly better, yes. Just one big block is... hard to navigate, to say the least. But now we at least have categories. ^^;

    EDIT: I have to add I still think that the way the song making is sorted is very weird, though. The separate VOCALOID boards still bug me...

    That, and why is the boards for UTAU voicebanks gone now? o_O;
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    Re: New Skin Objections

    Post  Kentai-P on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:26 am

    we had them before.
    I split them now and layered more cathegories over it to somehow trick the very limited options I have in configuring this boards look^^

    Now I also merged the Recycling center into two parts: The "Talk Area" and the "Unholy Zone"

    sy,
    Kentai


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