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    The PIAPRO "P"

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    Koda

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    The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:18 pm

    Since I have seen people using a "-P" after their producer names more than once now, I think it's about time I explain why this is wrong.

    The "P" that PIAPRO gives to some of the members of its community (full-width ASCII, not a normal capital "P") stands for "Producer". It is used as a respectful honorific to take the place of a normal honorific like さん (san) or 様 (sama). Not only is this true, it is also a term only to be used for people whom PIAPRO's management has deemed worthy of the title.

    Because of the fact that most Western VOCALOID Producers don't speak or read Japanese, we are mostly unable to join PIAPRO and have a chance to receive this title. However, the Western community has collectively agreed that very large VOCALOID communities such as VocaloidOtaku.net, and VOCALOIDism.com (i.e. not this site yet) have the ability to also grant this title to Western Producers who have made at least one original VOCALOID song that is considered by the community to be worthy of admiration.

    What does this mean? It means that the "P" should only be used by people other than yourself as a term of respect if, and only if, the administration of one of the aforementioned sites has agreed that you can be called by this title.
    ___________________________________________

    I'll try not to get on people's case for adding the "-P" to their own names when talking about themselves, even though it can come across as extremely pompous or arrogant.

    However, I don't think it should be allowed to use the honorific if the title has not been given to the Producer rightfully. In fact, I think it would be best to disallow the use of a "-P" in usernames altogether, but I'm not in a position to make that call.

    Thank you for your attention,
    ~Just Koda
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    Melodicanth

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Melodicanth on Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:36 pm

    I agree, Koda. "-P" names should be banned altogether. However, there should be a way to tell new people signing up on the site before they sign up.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:46 pm

    It's possible to program restrictions on usernames if you know a bit of coding, which I believe Kentai-P does.
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    Melodicanth

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Melodicanth on Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:52 pm

    Yeah, but aren't forum websites that use hosts specifically for forums (board-directory, proboards, freeforums, forumotion, etc.) usually limited with how much you yourself can code? I'm not sure about this host, but proboards was always a big brat to me over stuff like that. Or maybe I just didn't look hard enough. Neutral
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:09 pm

    You're right, it does depend on the host. I don't know much about this host, so I couldn't tell you.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  UtauReni on Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:48 pm

    YES!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you for making this thread! It drives me crazy when overseas kids give themselves -P names ><;;;

    I can't wait until the day this forum becomes a part of that list of sites where you can receive a legit -P name. I hope some day I become a -P... <3
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    Melodicanth

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Melodicanth on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:14 am

    As do quite a few people here, Reni~

    Let's earn our -P's! If this board doesn't get big enough, we can always submit stuff to VO, right? :3
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  UtauReni on Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:15 am

    VO... *shivers*


    big forums scare me ;3;
    *hides*
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    Armageddon11

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Armageddon11 on Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:49 am

    While I agree with a rule against usernames with "-P" on the end who didn't deserve it, I am against implementing a feature to ban them from being made altogether. Why? Because it may at some point prevent someone who actually earned a -P from joining. Just strikes me as potentially counter-productive.
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Kentai-P on Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:06 am

    @Arma: agreed.

    now a bit of trivia from the Vocaloid Wiki:


    "Each VOCALOID work has an author by all means, and the author has a name by all means. The author of the VOCALOID work is generally called "Producer" (for short "P").

    There are two ways in deciding the producer name.


    1. A case where the author personally chooses a name

    There is the case where the author gives his/her name in the description of the work and it just settles in as a producer name. In this case, the author does not add "P" behind his/her name. However, sometimes "P" is added by the audiences. ("P," short of producer, is used almost as honorific title in NicoNicoDouga.)

    2. A case where it is decided by audience

    From the characteristic of the work or part of the explanation of the author, a producer name is suggested by the audience. When the author accepts it, his/her producer name is decided. Because it is impossible without many support of the audience, it is recognized as an honor for an author that his/her producer name is suggested by the audience."


    source: http://vocaloid.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Producer

    So, if you want to have a "P" behind your name, you should wait until fans deem one of your songs good enough to award you with it.


    Personally I think it is not so bad if you call yourself a 'P', if you already published a greater number of original vocaloid/Utau songs. ( so like 10+/15+)

    sy,
    Kentai


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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  myu on Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:31 am

    Thank you for this thread, Koda! ^^ It really bothers me too when people who hasn´t earned their "P" name just give themselves one. Or ask their friends to give it. >_<
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    Koda

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:47 pm

    Armageddon11 wrote:it may at some point prevent someone who actually earned a -P from joining.
    Both Kentai and I have earned "P"s from VocaloidOtaku.net, and I don't find it obstructive.

    @Kentai-P
    Dude, you're pulling that off a Wiki. You do realize that that can be edited by anyone at any time for any reason containing any degree of truth. If I wanted to argue with a Wiki, I'd just edit it really fast and then it would argue in my place. I'm speaking from knowledge gathered from people who are actually active members of PIAPRO.

    The point is, in regards to the "P" rule, the Japanese have a phrase roughly translated as, "a shrewd hawk does not show off his talons". Basically, A good producer doesn't need to keep calling themselves "P" because their work should do the talking for them. If you truly do deserve a "P", it should be obvious.

    For the record, here is a link to my VOCALOID Wiki article talk page in which a member of PIAPRO corrected my use of "Koda-P" and I first learned about the rules.

    http://vocaloid.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Kodakami
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Kentai-P on Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:07 pm

    whadeheck do you mean with 'argument'? oO

    As I said it was just some trivia I dropped there. And I think it makes a nice point, being that the "P" doesn't come from the producer, but from his audience.

    And it is in convergence with what you said, as you already acknowledged that the western producers who lack the appropreate japanese knowledge couldn't attain their "P" from the japanese community, thus it is accaptable, if they recieve it from their audience.

    sy,
    Kentai


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    Koda

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:52 pm

    It's true that it comes from the audience, but then anyone could easily get one from any star-struck noob. That's why it comes from Administration on large forums: so that there is some degree of meaning behind the title. Normal members of the community can just ask an Administrator to declare it.

    The main point I was trying to make with this is that it's rather impolite to refer to oneself as "-P". I was merely making this clarification for any newcomers who hadn't latched on to the idea.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Kentai-P on Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:07 pm

    Yeah, that is right.
    But that is it.
    It is impolite, very impolite.

    Also it is bad publicity for the person as a producer, so I don't see, why we should further persue this as a problem, the people are doing it to themselfes^^
    And if it gives them some self-esteem, so be it.

    The experienced producers and true fans know who the honored producers are.

    sy,
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:09 pm

    *is guilty of trying to use a P name in the past*

    this is why i changed my name, it was Rave-P, not anymore. I used to think (from some misleading info i got from a friend0 that you only need an original song to become a -P. Once I was told otherwise I changed it, now I feel kind of bad about ever using one...
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    Koda

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:02 am

    You're good. A "-P" used in ignorance is innocent. Now that you know, you can change it.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  UtauReni on Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:30 pm

    Re-reading this thread, it all seems so intimidating... ^^;;;


    I would like to think that a person who does his or best work and strives to improve his or herself on a daily basis would be able to receive a legitimate name of respect from his or her audience. All this stuff about the person needing specifically to make an original Vocaloid song and needing to recieve it from a specific administration... it just seems so... I dunno. Like a -P name isn't really worth it for someone like me, who can make only an original UTAU song and is only watched by administration on a smaller forum. LOL ./shot dead
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    Koda

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:48 pm

    There's nothing that says you can't make your own title and give it away to everyone who "works hard". As it stands, PIAPRO uses the "P" for people who have produced original VOCALOID work worthy of commendation (though other Japanese sites will often give the title to original UTAU music producers as well).
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Mooncrafter on Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:11 pm

    Yea, the title applies to UTAU producers as well. But you have to make EXTREMELY GOOD .USTs or original work.

    Personally, I think it should only be original work, but, that's the two ways of receiving the title for UTAU.

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  crossfrown on Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:19 am

    P names do not demand original songs, jsyk.

    ChoiWaruP has never written an original song, but he's a pretty famous producer.
    Same with CoverP (Sango312).

    I think when it comes to the -P suffix, you have to replace it with quantity. 10+ hand-constructed covers that sound decent allows a -P name, I'd think.
    Originals need to be high-quality or made in bulk on the other hand.

    The best producers I know don't have P names though. Ryo, Oneroom, Deco*27, Nem...

    ...Well Oneroom has a P name, but I forgot it.

    I would never adopt a P name even if I earned one. I just don't see the appeal and "Crossfrown" looks better...
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:07 pm

    Of course Ryo-sama has a -P. You don't always get to see it because he's often addressed as "Ryo-sama", meaning the more-respectful honorific is preferable to the lesser one. Also, his name sometimes goes without when it's said by people who don't know the term (which is often, due to his popularity).

    Were these -P's given by PIAPRO, or by the uninformed Western community? I'll tell you right now that PIAPRO doesn't officially recognize UTAU producers (though many UTAU producers have -P's because the community believes they deserve them despite having never worked with VOCALOID).

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  crossfrown on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:50 pm

    I have never, in my life, seen people call Ryo Ryo-sama besides you. Even on his videos. I thought he should have a P name, but "Ryo" and "supercell" are so iconic I doubted the credibility of giving him one.

    Okay yeah that confused me; what does PIAPRO have to do with it? This is a Niconico thing (originating from idolm@ster videos).

    I can accept that people don't really give P names to UTAU producers, though.

    And it's ChoiWaruP. What do you think.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  UtauReni on Fri Jul 16, 2010 2:52 pm

    UTAU is rather new, so I think it makes sense that people aren't giving honorific names to UTAU producers... yet. I wonder how soon it will be when UTAU users are placed on the same pedestals as Vocaloid users? That would be so wonderful ^^ after all, UTAU can sound equally as professional - sometimes even moreso - than Vocaloid ;D
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  GaizerDragon on Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:07 am

    OMG, I didn't know that "-P" is for honorific people only.
    I thought because I'm a producer, so i put a -p at the end of my username. orz

    I'm sorry for the confusion. I'm guilty as charged.
    I didn't earn the -P title, but I will, soon ^^.

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