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    The PIAPRO "P"

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    annamaeblythe

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  annamaeblythe on Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:22 am

    I just have to put in-
    I know three or so Ps, like, pretty well.
    AshiotoP, HokeP, and I think Osamu-san.
    AshiotoP really, really... uhm... I use UTAU better than them. Their P name was given to them by someone after they noticed they were the only Japanese user who used Ashioto Kori.
    Aside from his usernames, he generally refers to himself as AshiotoP at ANY given chance.
    I think to him, receiving a P name was like a bragging right.
    (And as I said, even though he has made one or two original songs with help from others, and has made a few USTs... I use UTAU better than he does.)

    I can't really judge Hoke-san's work (aside that his mixing is AWFUL and he can't use LOKE well. At all.), but his P name is just his name with a P at the end. I've only seen him use it in video descriptions, and I stalk his blogs and twitter.
    I don't know if he makes his own USTs, since I'm not good at stalking him. I also have no idea if he's made original songs or not. (But, I really have a feeling that he hasn't.)

    Osamu-san may not actually have a P name, but I'm pretty sure he does 8D;
    He has, like, ten original songs posted on his youtube page.
    I've only seen one hint that he might have one, and that was a P name in the tags on the video for one of his original songs on nico.
    He's a member on Piapro (And I think he was emoing about something piapro related recently?)
    Anyway, if he has a P name, he really, really doesn't show it off or brag about it. And I'm sure he has one, since he has a ton of original songs and junk.

    (Actually, one of my favorite UTAUs was voiced by TanukiyaManbow~ He makes a HECK of a lot of original UTAU songs, and quite a few are like "LOVELOVELOVELOVE", and I don't think I've ever even seen him use a P name.)

    BUT, I stalk Japanese users every chance I get, SO.
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:37 am

    annamaeblythe wrote:
    I can't really judge Hoke-san's work (aside that his mixing is AWFUL and he can't use LOKE well. At all.), but his P name is just his name with a P at the end. I've only seen him use it in video descriptions, and I stalk his blogs and twitter.

    Just because someone can't use LOKE well doesn't mean they don't deserve a -P name -___- Although I can understand if he sucks at mixing then I suppose that takes away from it.

    and lol'd at stalking his twitter.
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    annamaeblythe

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  annamaeblythe on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:34 am

    Rave wrote:
    Just because someone can't use LOKE well doesn't mean they don't deserve a -P name -___- Although I can understand if he sucks at mixing then I suppose that takes away from it.

    and lol'd at stalking his twitter.

    Yeah, but that would be like me sucking at using Anaka.
    (Since Hoke /is/ LOKE's voicer and all.)

    I can't really tell you how good of an UTAU user he is because I don't know if he makes everything from scratch, if he uses midis, or if he bums USTs off of other people. But, I'm pretty sure I've never seen him touch VOCALOID. /is shot
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:43 am

    annamaeblythe wrote:
    Rave wrote:
    Just because someone can't use LOKE well doesn't mean they don't deserve a -P name -___- Although I can understand if he sucks at mixing then I suppose that takes away from it.

    and lol'd at stalking his twitter.

    Yeah, but that would be like me sucking at using Anaka.
    (Since Hoke /is/ LOKE's voicer and all.)

    I can't really tell you how good of an UTAU user he is because I don't know if he makes everything from scratch, if he uses midis, or if he bums USTs off of other people. But, I'm pretty sure I've never seen him touch VOCALOID. /is shot

    Yes, but some people are only good at using other UTAU's, and they just made their own to get started, is Hoke good at using other UTAU's? I don't know much of his work.
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    Mooncrafter

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Mooncrafter on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:44 am

    annamaeblythe wrote:
    Rave wrote:
    Just because someone can't use LOKE well doesn't mean they don't deserve a -P name -___- Although I can understand if he sucks at mixing then I suppose that takes away from it.

    and lol'd at stalking his twitter.

    Yeah, but that would be like me sucking at using Anaka.
    (Since Hoke /is/ LOKE's voicer and all.)

    I can't really tell you how good of an UTAU user he is because I don't know if he makes everything from scratch, if he uses midis, or if he bums USTs off of other people. But, I'm pretty sure I've never seen him touch VOCALOID. /is shot

    Quite frankly, UTAU is NOT as easy of a program as you make it sound. And what the hell? Just because I voice Ariella doesn't mean that I'm BETTER at using her than Sky is. Sky makes her sound epic, and I can't configure or make .USTs to save my own life.
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:50 am

    Mooncrafter wrote:
    annamaeblythe wrote:
    Rave wrote:
    Just because someone can't use LOKE well doesn't mean they don't deserve a -P name -___- Although I can understand if he sucks at mixing then I suppose that takes away from it.

    and lol'd at stalking his twitter.

    Yeah, but that would be like me sucking at using Anaka.
    (Since Hoke /is/ LOKE's voicer and all.)

    I can't really tell you how good of an UTAU user he is because I don't know if he makes everything from scratch, if he uses midis, or if he bums USTs off of other people. But, I'm pretty sure I've never seen him touch VOCALOID. /is shot

    Quite frankly, UTAU is NOT as easy of a program as you make it sound. And what the hell? Just because I voice Ariella doesn't mean that I'm BETTER at using her than Sky is. Sky makes her sound epic, and I can't configure or make .USTs to save my own life.

    I agree, just because I use Amagaku doesn't mean I'm the best at using her.



    And before I forget, (this is directed at all the board people) I've been thinking about a western version of the -P thing. I think it would be a bit confusing if we just used a lower case p, so why not use a different letter all together? Maybe a -W for western users (W=western, i'm not creative OTL) It would make more sense, and it makes it so the VOtaku or some of the other big board admins could perhaps make a subforum for how to obtain one and the rules for getting one, etc.
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    Mooncrafter

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Mooncrafter on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:57 am

    I think the -W is a great idea Rave!
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:58 am

    Mooncrafter wrote:I think the -W is a great idea Rave!

    Thanks, I kinda hope that the board admins (Kentai, Reni, Koda...i dont know if there are others) see this... *has been ignored on my posts a lot* T_T
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    annamaeblythe

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  annamaeblythe on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:00 pm

    @Rave
    Eh, it's all drowned out by reverb, tbh.
    He does "cute" stuff with Defoko (LOVE), but despite my undying passion for him... I can't sit through one of his songs unless it involves his voice. It's just... Meh?

    Mooncrafter wrote: Quite frankly, UTAU is NOT as easy of a program as you make it sound. And what the hell? Just because I voice Ariella doesn't mean that I'm BETTER at using her than Sky is. Sky makes her sound epic, and I can't configure or make .USTs to save my own life.

    Haha, I guess it's just easy for me?
    To be honest, I have a good feeling that you'd be better with Ariella than a different UTAU.
    You aren't always the BEST at using your UTAU, but I would venture to guess that people would have more drive to make their own UTAU sound better than someone else's.
    I usually feel like I do my best on LOKE x Anaka duets because 1) I'm trying my hardest to make Anaka sound perfect, 2) I still have that "MAYBE! If I make LOKE and Anaka sing enough pretty songs together, HOKE WILL LOVE ME :'D" thing going on.
    I don't have that drive when I use basically any other UTAU.

    I'm not saying that because you voice an UTAU, you'll be the best at using it.
    I'm saying that because you voiced an UTAU, you'll try harder to make it sound better than some random joe's UTAU.

    As for using a separate suffix for overseas users-
    I don't really like the idea of giving overseas producers special suffixes. I mean, Overseas generally seems SO MUCH less formal than Japanese.
    We don't really go around saying "Hi Miss Rave! Is Mr. Kentai feeling alright today?"
    Using a P name as a handle overseas is just.. meh?
    I could understand the benefits of having a P name, but I think that, well...
    I had a conversation about P names in front of a girl at school, and she told me, "I don't know what you're talking about, but P is what I do in the potty."

    So, that's what I was thinking when I was hyper from drinking a soda.

    And, -W is a very, very bad idea.
    (wwwwwwwwww) (should explain itself ._. )
    (Also, weeaboo and wapanese come to mind. -W seems like it would be BEGGING for a... well... wall of wwww if you posted on Nico.)
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    Mooncrafter

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Mooncrafter on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:04 pm

    Who cares what Nico users think about our Western songs anyways? We shouldn't be trying to mimic THEIR language in the first place to get our songs some attention. We should be doing the best we can do in our own language.

    maybe -wP could work. westernProducer. or -oP overseasProducer.

    Or we could just leave it at -P since the English WERE the first to come up with the stupid Vocaloid program to begin with.
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:07 pm

    Mooncrafter wrote:Who cares what Nico users think about our Western songs anyways? We shouldn't be trying to mimic THEIR language in the first place to get our songs some attention. We should be doing the best we can do in our own language.

    maybe -wP could work. westernProducer. or -oP overseasProducer.

    Or we could just leave it at -P since the English WERE the first to come up with the stupid Vocaloid program to begin with.

    I kind of like the -oP idea, simply because the -P idea is intended for only the PIAPRO users, so it feels kind of strange to use that. And I agree, I think the nico's are probably pretty nice, but there opinion shouldn't really matter in a Western community.
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    annamaeblythe

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  annamaeblythe on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:14 pm

    Mooncrafter wrote:Who cares what Nico users think about our Western songs anyways? We shouldn't be trying to mimic THEIR language in the first place to get our songs some attention. We should be doing the best we can do in our own language.

    maybe -wP could work. westernProducer. or -oP overseasProducer.

    Or we could just leave it at -P since the English WERE the first to come up with the stupid Vocaloid program to begin with.

    Weeaboos care. And I'm pretty sure I'm a weeaboo. (I might adopt maeW to show off my weeabooism.)
    (Okay, I'm more like a Japanophile----)

    Okay? Then quit UTAU.
    UTAU is their domain. If you feel as if you don't have to respect the Japanese, then GTFO off their territory = 3=

    Sure, VOCALOID was in English in the first place. (Created by YAMAHA. Wait, that sounds vaguely Japanese.) But, it wasn't popular until Miku showed up.

    Furthermore, if you find it stupid, then GTFO.

    TBH, There are Japanese people who speak English. (Like my Osamu-san C: )
    If we team up with them, they could actually, I dunno, help us get P names and crap so that we don't have to make up some diluted system that barely has any significance outside of that little circle?
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:20 pm

    annamaeblythe wrote:
    Mooncrafter wrote:Who cares what Nico users think about our Western songs anyways? We shouldn't be trying to mimic THEIR language in the first place to get our songs some attention. We should be doing the best we can do in our own language.

    maybe -wP could work. westernProducer. or -oP overseasProducer.

    Or we could just leave it at -P since the English WERE the first to come up with the stupid Vocaloid program to begin with.

    Weeaboos care. And I'm pretty sure I'm a weeaboo. (I might adopt maeW to show off my weeabooism.)
    (Okay, I'm more like a Japanophile----)

    Okay? Then quit UTAU.
    UTAU is their domain. If you feel as if you don't have to respect the Japanese, then GTFO off their territory = 3=

    Sure, VOCALOID was in English in the first place. (Created by YAMAHA. Wait, that sounds vaguely Japanese.) But, it wasn't popular until Miku showed up.

    Furthermore, if you find it stupid, then GTFO.

    TBH, There are Japanese people who speak English. (Like my Osamu-san C: )
    If we team up with them, they could actually, I dunno, help us get P names and crap so that we don't have to make up some diluted system that barely has any significance outside of that little circle?

    Ok, Mae, thats a bit much, just because she doesn't think we should mimic them doesn't mean we shouldn't respect them. I deeply respect Nico's and Japanese people in general, but I still think our communities are different, and merging them together is a near impossible feat, so personally I think we should try to have our own versions of "-P" names for western producers. Some people may disagree, but why don't we at least give it a shot? Especially if people with ties to PIAPRO and japanese users, etc. helped, it probably would end up being a decent system.
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    Mooncrafter

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Mooncrafter on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:24 pm

    1. I like Japan. I plan on moving there after college to teach English for a year.
    2. I like Vocaloid. I plan on buying MIRIAM or LOLA after I graduate from high school this year.
    3. Just as Japanese use MIRIAM to sing Japanese songs, and used an English program, patched it to work in Japanese and made their own Japanese singers, we've done that with UTAU.
    4. Whether or not you have tomodachi wa Nihon ga Eego o hanashimasu. (Japanese friends that speak English). -P names are earned in Piapro regardless after HARD and I mean HARD work. And then what does it get you? If you really want to pursue music, are you going to aim at the Japanese or at America? If the Japanese, then you'd best be working your tail off to become absolutely fluent in their language. If America, then -P names don't really MATTER so much except for what goes on your CD.
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    Rave

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:27 pm

    Mooncrafter wrote:1. I like Japan. I plan on moving there after college to teach English for a year.
    2. I like Vocaloid. I plan on buying MIRIAM or LOLA after I graduate from high school this year.
    3. Just as Japanese use MIRIAM to sing Japanese songs, and used an English program, patched it to work in Japanese and made their own Japanese singers, we've done that with UTAU.
    4. Whether or not you have tomodachi wa Nihon ga Eego o hanashimasu. (Japanese friends that speak English). -P names are earned in Piapro regardless after HARD and I mean HARD work. And then what does it get you? If you really want to pursue music, are you going to aim at the Japanese or at America? If the Japanese, then you'd best be working your tail off to become absolutely fluent in their language. If America, then -P names don't really MATTER so much except for what goes on your CD.
    *nodnod*
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    UtauReni

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  UtauReni on Wed Jul 21, 2010 12:50 pm

    okayokayokayokay, let's not have this thread go to the dogs, if you would pardon the expression. It's good to have discussions and bring up ideas, but it would appear that this has gone a little out of hand... I fear that soon some feelings will get hurt, so how about we put an end to the debate we've started, eh? x3

    Factually, there is a thick language barrier between 'Overseas' and Japan. Sure, there might be some folks from both sides who can cross such a barrier, but overall, that's just the way it is. In my humble opinion this can be seen as two things: either an opportunity for us to try and reach out to the opposite side through other means (such a music) OR an opportunity to form our own communities entirely separate from the origin of Japan. I hope that makes sense...

    I like the idea of -oP and -wP. It may seem a little corny to some, but I think it might motivate some of the members of our community to do more producer-like work (i.e. collaborations, original songs). It may also (eventually) relieve the controversy of unknowing overseas users using -P without having legitimately earned it.

    I agree very much with what Mooncrafter (most recently) said. ...nuff said. ^^

    Rave wrote:
    Thanks, I kinda hope that the board admins (Kentai, Reni, Koda...i dont know if there are others) see this... *has been ignored on my posts a lot* T_T

    I'm sorry you feel that you are being ignored D: It's hard for me personally, at least, to keep up with everything... I'll try and do better myself from now on, and if you feel again that you're being ignored, let me know ;3; That applies to everyone here.. I would hate to think that any member on our board feels that way.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Rave on Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:14 pm

    UtauReni wrote:okayokayokayokay, let's not have this thread go to the dogs, if you would pardon the expression. It's good to have discussions and bring up ideas, but it would appear that this has gone a little out of hand... I fear that soon some feelings will get hurt, so how about we put an end to the debate we've started, eh? x3

    Factually, there is a thick language barrier between 'Overseas' and Japan. Sure, there might be some folks from both sides who can cross such a barrier, but overall, that's just the way it is. In my humble opinion this can be seen as two things: either an opportunity for us to try and reach out to the opposite side through other means (such a music) OR an opportunity to form our own communities entirely separate from the origin of Japan. I hope that makes sense...

    I like the idea of -oP and -wP. It may seem a little corny to some, but I think it might motivate some of the members of our community to do more producer-like work (i.e. collaborations, original songs). It may also (eventually) relieve the controversy of unknowing overseas users using -P without having legitimately earned it.

    I agree very much with what Mooncrafter (most recently) said. ...nuff said. ^^

    Rave wrote:
    Thanks, I kinda hope that the board admins (Kentai, Reni, Koda...i dont know if there are others) see this... *has been ignored on my posts a lot* T_T

    I'm sorry you feel that you are being ignored D: It's hard for me personally, at least, to keep up with everything... I'll try and do better myself from now on, and if you feel again that you're being ignored, let me know ;3; That applies to everyone here.. I would hate to think that any member on our board feels that way.

    Its ok, but it seems like on every forum i go on people just kinda ignore me 0w0 this forum has been better than most so far though.

    I do think we should use -oP or -wP, it would definatly help the newer users from straying into troublesome territory, especially since many of them can make the mistake of using a -P without proper cause. Myself included, if I had originally known about PIAPRO etc, it would have set much clearer standards for me, at least.
    Perhaps we should run this idea by the VOtaku admins? That is, if Kentai and the other admins here think its a good idea?
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:49 pm

    Woo! Finally got to the end of this topic. ^^;

    Since many of these topics have been opened and shut, I'll just respond to a few:

    1. You can call people whatever you like if it's a term of respect. ^^ If you guys want to call people *-oP or *-wP, then by all means do so. Honestly, I'm very happy when people recognize me as a VOCALOID producer at all; I don't care if it's with a "P", a "-wP", or even a "-thisGuyDunMakesValcoidMuzax!!1".

    2. If you're going for a separate title, I'm pretty sure the Western equivalent of the "P" honorific is "M.C." (Master of Ceremonies) before the Producer's name, but that just doesn't seem as cool, does it? ^^;

    3. The "P" was developed for the community, by the community, through sheer force of use. If you want a title to catch on, just start calling people it! xD Language is defined by use, not by the dictionary.

    4. If you're going to start a new system, then make a new thread and try to get as many people as you can to participate. Also, state rules that can be officially referred back to.

    5. The PIAPRO "P" is reserved as a specific term of respect for a specific accomplishment. Having more and more people called by it is like having more and more people being knighted by the Queen of England; it loses it's value.

    Whatever you guys decide to do, good luck and work hard. Also, if you want an admin to see your thread, why not give us a PM? We're always around, we just don't have the time to read everything.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Paprika on Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:08 pm

    Points 1-5 are all awesome points.

    But of course before any of this happens, there needs to be more than 40 something members on this forum.

    This needs big advertisement everywhere to attract the multitudes of English Producers, because there are song.

    Regardless if the active average skill level is something between composing an original masterpiece, to being barely able to make audible sounds on the UTAU/Vocaloid programs, having a mass of willing and learning people is better than having four people who hit the news everytime with their songs.

    Because four people stay four people. Two thousand people can learn.

    Lol advertisement.
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    Kentai-P
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Kentai-P on Fri Jul 23, 2010 2:20 pm

    @Paprika: yay, take a special admin-cookie for that! *gives admin cookie* :3

    @Koda: damn streight!
    For one, new titles have to be applied by force, just like you said.

    well I must say, I only like the P so much, because it has a Japanese origin and I'm a japanese fanatic. Also I do like honorifics ^-^

    Now @everyone else: You all have valid points and ideas, but in the end, just discussing the issue won't make them hapen. If you want it to be your way, you should agree on that en mass and then accomplish it.

    I can only second my prior two posters.

    sy,
    Kentai

    PS: stay friendly, I know discussions can heat up very quickly.


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    Koda

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Fri Jul 23, 2010 5:55 pm

    Lol, oh Kentai. You say you don't really love the P, but I can't think of someone who loves it more. ^^ Just take a look at your name!
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Vai on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:41 am

    Uhhh.. Regarding this topic. I just realized something. How come great producers like Ika, Kz and even Ryo who is considered the greatest producer in NicoNicoDouga don't have their name mentioned in such a way?

    Yeah, somebody mentioned about this earlier in this thread but I'm still just a tad curious about it.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:01 pm

    My guess is that they are popular enough to have their name said so often that it gets shortened back down. Seriously, there's only one important "ryo" in this entire section of the net; when I say his name, you know exactly who I'm talking about.

    Another possibility is that, since the "P" is an honorific, some people just choose not to use it, or to replace it with others. Also keep in mind that the lack of an honorific in Japanese is saying something even more powerful than any honorific you can give them.

    Another 'nother possibility is that people who are very very famous in the VOCALOID scene have requested, out of humility, that people not refer to them as "P". I would find this to be a high possibility, as that's how status works in Japan (for the most part); you get to downplay your achievements more and more as more people know of your work.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Vai on Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:10 am

    Koda wrote:My guess is that they are popular enough to have their name said so often that it gets shortened back down. Seriously, there's only one important "ryo" in this entire section of the net; when I say his name, you know exactly who I'm talking about.

    Another possibility is that, since the "P" is an honorific, some people just choose not to use it, or to replace it with others. Also keep in mind that the lack of an honorific in Japanese is saying something even more powerful than any honorific you can give them.

    Another 'nother possibility is that people who are very very famous in the VOCALOID scene have requested, out of humility, that people not refer to them as "P". I would find this to be a high possibility, as that's how status works in Japan (for the most part); you get to downplay your achievements more and more as more people know of your work.

    Hmm. I don't know much, if at all, about Japanese's way with honorifics. But okay, I think I can see the big picture here if you say it like that. THanks for clearing things up then.
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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

    Post  Koda on Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:10 am

    No problem at all.

    A quick run-down on honorifics:

    Honorifics are very similar to titles of respect like, "Mr.", "Mrs.", and "Dr.". Some of the main differences are the variety and requirements of honorifics.

    If you are not basically family with someone (a very close friend, etc...), you are required to address someone with an honorific at the end of their name (if you don't, then it's considered an insult).

    The default honorific is "san", which is "Mr.", Mrs.", "Ms.", and "Miss" all rolled up into one handy word. You would use this with just about anyone you're not friends or relatives with; even your classmates.

    More honorifics include "sama", which shows even more respect, and "kun" and "chan" which are less formal and used for people who are your friends (male and female respectively).

    "P" follows these same rules, but is used for VOCALOID producers you respect.

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    Re: The PIAPRO "P"

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